Continuous network disconnects

[raj]

Suddenly getting frequent network disconnects. First I get the message 'instructor has left the session' then a few seconds later the audible double-pip that accompanies a network disconnect, and the FSInn bar goes orange and I'm off the network again. I can sometimes click the FSInn bar back to green and then reconnect to VATSIM, but more often FS9 just hangs, or dies with a black screen, and I have to restart it. This is happening every couple of minutes, and is making online flying impossible. It has suddenly started doing this a few days ago, and I can't think of anything which changed to cause it. I tried a flight with SB3 and it stayed connected throughout, so I assume it's something to do with FSInn. I have tried uninstalling & reinstalling FSCopilot & FSInn.

Anyone got any ideas? Can I debug network connections?

[L. D. James]

Suddenly getting frequent network disconnects. First I get the message 'instructor has left the session' then a few seconds later the audible double-pip that accompanies a network disconnect, and the FSInn bar goes orange and I'm off the network again. I can sometimes click the FSInn bar back to green and then reconnect to VATSIM, but more often FS9 just hangs, or dies with a black screen, and I have to restart it. This is happening every couple of minutes, and is making online flying impossible. It has suddenly started doing this a few days ago, and I can't think of anything which changed to cause it. I tried a flight with SB3 and it stayed connected throughout, so I assume it's something to do with FSInn. I have tried uninstalling & reinstalling FSCopilot & FSInn.

Anyone got any ideas? Can I debug network connections?

Lets start out by checking the most common culprits. Since it happens frequently, this might be a plus in resolving the issue. It'll take less time to see if the various test are effective.

Look at the FSInn/VATSIM FAQ on our front page, http://flightsim.apollo3.com , and perform each of the items in FAQ question #4 and itemize how you performed the step and the results.

-- L. James

--
L. D. James
ljames@apollo3.com
www.apollo3.com/~ljames

[raj]

1) "Check the server in use" - done. Tried a few both here in Europe and more remote (for me) in US.

2) "Many connection problems are resolved by the presence of a loopback network adapter" - installed and configured as instructed (172.20.1.1 / 255.255.0.0 / blank gateway).

3) "Verify that ports 6809 TCP, 3782 TCP+UDP and 3290 UDP are not blocked" - nothing has changed on the router recently. I assume if any of these ports were blocked I could never connect rather than get intermittent disconnects?

4) "Multiplayer Max Plane setting" - set to 25 (and max range set to 34)

5) "Ensure you've given full access to the three modules mentioned in the quick install steps" - UAC control disabled (Win7)

6) "If this fails, try disabling your third party firewall/antivirus program" - not yet and would rather not. Nothing changed recently on firewall (Comodo) and anti-virus (Avast).

7) "There's a reported bug in the various windows OS' which a hotfix may resolve" - can't see one for Win7

Still getting disconnects :(

[L. D. James]

1) "Check the server in use" - done. Tried a few both here in Europe and more remote (for me) in US.

2) "Many connection problems are resolved by the presence of a loopback network adapter" - installed and configured as instructed (172.20.1.1 / 255.255.0.0 / blank gateway).

3) "Verify that ports 6809 TCP, 3782 TCP+UDP and 3290 UDP are not blocked" - nothing has changed on the router recently. I assume if any of these ports were blocked I could never connect rather than get intermittent disconnects?

4) "Multiplayer Max Plane setting" - set to 25 (and max range set to 34)

5) "Ensure you've given full access to the three modules mentioned in the quick install steps" - UAC control disabled (Win7)

6) "If this fails, try disabling your third party firewall/antivirus program" - not yet and would rather not. Nothing changed recently on firewall (Comodo) and anti-virus (Avast).

7) "There's a reported bug in the various windows OS' which a hotfix may resolve" - can't see one for Win7

Still getting disconnects :(

Hi, Richard. You went thought those items very fast and thorough. This saves a lot of time.

FSInn is a very robust program. It works very consistent unless something changes. In this case, there is a good chance that your Third party firewall/antivirus program has changed. Mine changes very frequently. In fact if it goes too long without changing Windows will complain that it's out of date.

I understand that you haven't made any intentional changes. But it's very unlikely that your third party firewall/antivirus program isn't periodically changing.

I often call to the celebrated occasion where Zone Alarm changed on me and MSN Messenger stopped working. It stopped working for everyone. The only resolution was to downgrade and prevent it from updating until the Zone Alarm people fixed it to become again compatible with MSN Messenger.

The resolution to downgrade and wait was on their site. It took some months before many MSN Messenger fans could use the latest version of Zone Alarm. Actually many, including me, had to skip that particular version.

The most common culprit for problems with FSInn is third party firewall/antivirus programs. This is also mentioned on Microsoft's site for Flight Simulator.

From what I see from your through test, it appears that the only option left is the #5 item in FAQ question #13. As the FAQ says, Windows Builtin Firewall should suffice during this interim.

By the way, I have seen many occasions where uninstalling a third party firewall/antivirus program, then successfully running the program that was having problems and reinstalling the third party firewall/antivirus program didn't interfere with it on the second install. I've seen this very often with McAfee.

At present, this appears to be the only option left to use FSInn... the 5th item of FAQ question #13.

-- L. James

--
L. D. James
ljames@apollo3.com
www.apollo3.com/~ljames

[raj]

OK, have done a couple of flights now with Avast and Comodo disabled or shut-down. Still getting disconnects. So it's looking like yet another long and tedious re-installation of FS9 is required. I've pretty much had enough of the long struggle to get FS9 and FSInn working on my PC, and concluded they will NEVER work together - I assume it's a hardware or software conflict. I think I'm going to have to go back to SB3.

[L. D. James]

OK, have done a couple of flights now with Avast and Comodo disabled or shut-down. Still getting disconnects. So it's looking like yet another long and tedious re-installation of FS9 is required. I've pretty much had enough of the long struggle to get FS9 and FSInn working on my PC, and concluded they will NEVER work together - I assume it's a hardware or software conflict. I think I'm going to have to go back to SB3.

Hi, Richard. I understand that you think the process is long and tedious. But it doesn't have to be. While I understand you've spent a lot of time, I'm just stating for the record of anyone viewing this thread that the steps can be done by most within 15 minutes.

There are the quick installation steps linked in http://flightsim.apollo3.com which many people can perform in about 4 minutes. Then as mentioned on that page there is a common culprit that can happen with a third party firewall/antivirus program. The resolution is provided in the linked FAQ, the number 5 of the FAQ question #13.

It appears that you did everything except the #5 step. If you had just concentrated on the proven steps from this official support channel it might not have appeared so tedious and it shouldn't have been so long.

Again, I understand that you're mentioning that you prefer to run Squawkbox than to test the provided resolution. But for the record it's there. You can probably do a lot of other things, but the actual steps are cut and fairly straight, the four steps of the quick installation guide and the removal of the third party block as provided in the FAQ linked in that guide.

-- L. James

--
L. D. James
ljames@apollo3.com
www.apollo3.com/~ljames

[raj]

LDJ, no it's not FSInn re-installation I was referring to as long and tedious, it's FS9. I've done the FSInn re-install twice recently and it's fine. I will, with extreme reluctance, uninstall the firewall and anti-virus programs, and let you know the outcome. But for me now it is just going through the motions to complete the process.

I have had soooo many problems with FSInn and FS9 (on *my* PC I stress - I accept it works fine for the vast majority), that I just don't think it will ever happen for me. Maybe I'll try again with another PC sometime in the future when the current one gets put out to pasture. But I've no idea what is causing the problems, so if 3rd-party software related it's quite possible that they will persist.

Of course I'm very grateful for you for the time you have spent trying to assist this and previous problems, and I'm sure the FAQ is a great help to most, but it's not quite a panacea, and now that FSInn is no longer maintained, I assume any problems intrinsic to it are going to remain. I think I must just be one of the unlucky ones to have hooked into them.

Though I wonder if there is any chance anyone will pick up FSInn development again? It's a really great piece of software - when it works.

[L. D. James]

LDJ, no it's not FSInn re-installation I was referring to as long and tedious, it's FS9.

Thank you for your kind words of expression that it's not FSInn which is long and tedious. If it ever became that way, I'd ensure steps to resolve it from having to be.

I've done the FSInn re-install twice recently and it's fine. I will, with extreme reluctance, uninstall the firewall and anti-virus programs, and let you know the outcome. But for me now it is just going through the motions to complete the process.

I have had soooo many problems with FSInn and FS9 (on *my* PC I stress - I accept it works fine for the vast majority), that I just don't think it will ever happen for me.

I hope you don't mind my taking the time to make it clear that, so far when used according to the provided steps and parameters, so far it has worked problem free for everyone. There has been a few rare occasions where a few has chosen not to perform the necessary parameters and either used it in a modified way or not used it at all.

And, of course if it doesn't work according to the provided parameters we would be strong at work in the background to resolve any issues that might occur.

Removing a connection block is an absolute criterion. And, of course, I understand that, that might not be an option for some, or in this case for you.

It's my concern to keep the steps very simple and clear for the sake of the thread and others who might have problems. Without my description, another person doing something as simple as typing in a non working IP address rather than using one from the list in the quick install steps might feel hopeless because they might feel that if you couldn't get it to work after spending days and possibly weeks or more, they should feel totally hopeless. But in your case, it's a clear step that was provided after the first message, of following the few lines in the FAQ for removing the connection block.

Maybe I'll try again with another PC sometime in the future when the current one gets put out to pasture. But I've no idea what is causing the problems, so if 3rd-party software related it's quite possible that they will persist.

The FAQ suggests that the person contacts the provider of their third party firewall/antivirus program for assisting them in taming it. This has worked many time for people in the past. But it's something between the provider of the application that is doing the block and the user.

By the way, I have also seen many times when removing the offending ramped program resolved the issue and bringing it back didn't bring back the issue. I've seen it with Norton. I've seen it with McAffee. I've seen it with Avast.

Of course I'm very grateful for you for the time you have spent trying to assist this and previous problems, and I'm sure the FAQ is a great help to most, but it's not quite a panacea, and now that FSInn is no longer maintained, I assume any problems intrinsic to it are going to remain.

Well, so for the Quick Installation guide and the linked FAQ has been quiet the panacea for FSInn. I appreciate the input from the users to assist in the development and maintenance of the Installation Guide and FAQ. If an issue is missed, this is the resource for correcting it. Lots of effort is made to keep it small and simple and keep it working.

I appreciate your expression of appreciation for my effort. I really enjoy my work. As far as FSInn being maintained, I believe that most important is the fact that strongly supported.

I think I must just be one of the unlucky ones to have hooked into them.

Though I wonder if there is any chance anyone will pick up FSInn development again? It's a really great piece of software - when it works.

Benjamin hasn't retracted his statement that if it stopped working because of a new Flight Simulator, he'd provide support. But again, with whatever release that might materialize, the operation will always depend on the user allowing connectivity through their firewall/antivirus programs.

Thanks again for the feedback!

-- L. James

--
L. D. James
ljames@apollo3.com
www.apollo3.com/~ljames

[raj]

LDJ,

After an enforced break and some re-jigging of FSInn components, I *think* I finally have a solution. Uninstalling Comodo firewall and Avast anti-virus from my FS9 PC did NOT stop the random disconnects. I think that completes everything in your FAQ/sticky. So:

I hope you don't mind my taking the time to make it clear that, so far when used according to the provided steps and parameters, so far it has worked problem free for everyone. Well, not in my case at least.....

However, the solution appears to be to host FWInn on a remote PC. I've done 3 VATSIM flights now and have not had one disconnect. It's a *long* time since that last happened. An added bonus from running FWInn on the remote is that my FS9 PC CPU rarely hits 100% now, so FS9 performance benefits.

One problem I couldn't resolve with this setup is that I cannot get VVL (the voice module) working on either FS9 PC or the remote (it cuts out after 10 seconds of ATC unless all FSInn component are hosted on the FS9 PC, as I've reported on this forum before), so I've dusted off the old Advanced Voice Client software, and all is well again.

So I assume there is something on my FS9 PC that is interfering with multiplayer connections, and nothing I did with respect to AV/firewall/loopback-adapter made any difference. For the record, the FS9 PC is Win7 32-bit with Comodo and Avast, and the remote PC hosting FWInn is WinXP/Comodo/Avast. So it probably wasn't a firewall/anti-virus issue.

I don't suppose I'll ever find out what caused the disconnection problems on the FS9 PC. The next step is going to be a replacement PC anyway, so my current config will have to do for the interim. I've documented all this here partly so that any others with a similar issue might benefit, as there is clearly a gap in the FAQ/sticky that doesn't cover all FSInn connection issues (and it *is* an FSInn issue as random disconnects do not happen with my SB3 or IVAO IvAp clients).

[L. D. James]

LDJ,

After an enforced break and some re-jigging of FSInn components, I *think* I finally have a solution. Uninstalling Comodo firewall and Avast anti-virus from my FS9 PC did NOT stop the random disconnects. I think that completes everything in your FAQ/sticky. So:

Well, not in my case at least.....

However, the solution appears to be to host FWInn on a remote PC. I've done 3 VATSIM flights now and have not had one disconnect. It's a *long* time since that last happened. An added bonus from running FWInn on the remote is that my FS9 PC CPU rarely hits 100% now, so FS9 performance benefits.

One problem I couldn't resolve with this setup is that I cannot get VVL (the voice module) working on either FS9 PC or the remote (it cuts out after 10 seconds of ATC unless all FSInn component are hosted on the FS9 PC, as I've reported on this forum before), so I've dusted off the old Advanced Voice Client software, and all is well again.

So I assume there is something on my FS9 PC that is interfering with multiplayer connections, and nothing I did with respect to AV/firewall/loopback-adapter made any difference. For the record, the FS9 PC is Win7 32-bit with Comodo and Avast, and the remote PC hosting FWInn is WinXP/Comodo/Avast. So it probably wasn't a firewall/anti-virus issue.

I don't suppose I'll ever find out what caused the disconnection problems on the FS9 PC. The next step is going to be a replacement PC anyway, so my current config will have to do for the interim. I've documented all this here partly so that any others with a similar issue might benefit, as there is clearly a gap in the FAQ/sticky that doesn't cover all FSInn connection issues (and it *is* an FSInn issue as random disconnects do not happen with my SB3 or IVAO IvAp clients).

There's a good chance that some of the experiments that you have done apart from following very closely the provided steps might have cause some of the appearing to be unexplained problems you're having.

So far when a user follows the steps exactly as provided, and provide direct feedback to assist me in understand where there is deviation, all the problems are resolved.

I don't blame you for preferring not to perform some of the steps in the sequence, or some type of timely responsive manner. But I'd be more willing to concede that the installation steps and FAQ fails when the steps are performed in the provided orderly fashion, holding off on the other experiments which might interfere with the functionality, possibly introducing other problems that resemble the initial problem.

-- L. James

--
L. D. James
ljames@apollo3.com
www.apollo3.com/~ljames

[raj]

What??? You previously said:
It appears that you did everything except the #5 step.And #5 (of FAQ 13) is:
Some third party firewall/antivirus programs can only be disabled by uninstalling them, even though they have an option that says disable. So the uninstall might be the only way to check if this is the culprit (which almost always is)So I *uninstalled* both, as I said with great reluctance as I knew I'd have a lot of hassle re-installing & re-configuring them again after the test. So at this point I had "done everything".

To go back to my original request, in the words of your FAQ #4 - I keep getting disconnected (Or Can't Connect). These solutions failed to resolve my issue. If you re-read the thread you'll see I did do all but the AV/firewall uninstallation very early on. The experimenting (assuming you mean running FWInn on a remote PC) was done AFTER all else failed. I resolved it. Your FAQ/sticky did not :mad: But still, thanks anyway for trying.

[L. D. James]

What??? You previously said:
And #5 (of FAQ 13) is:
So I *uninstalled* both, as I said with great reluctance as I knew I'd have a lot of hassle re-installing & re-configuring them again after the test. So at this point I had "done everything".

To go back to my original request, in the words of your FAQ #4 - I keep getting disconnected (Or Can't Connect). These solutions failed to resolve my issue. If you re-read the thread you'll see I did do all but the AV/firewall uninstallation very early on. The experimenting (assuming you mean running FWInn on a remote PC) was done AFTER all else failed. I resolved it. Your FAQ/sticky did not But still, thanks anyway for trying.

Hi, Richard. First I'll express, you're very welcome. I'll always give the users my strong attention to any issue and work as if I was on a payroll to get any issue resolved. I appreciate the expression of thank!

As far as the having done everything, please keep in mind that you quoted my words as I said them and as I meant them. It appeared as if you had done everything. The most obvious and prevalent culprit is the #4 component (block by Third party firewall component). It's my effort to make the very clear in the quick install steps.

When something goes wrong, I immediately suspect that. Because, as I mentioned, it appeared as if everything else was done, I stayed at the most obvious. Had you performed the most obvious, I would have looked for other components in the Quick Installation step and linked FAQ that might not have been so obvious.

I haven't see a case yet where the provided steps won't work when a user is using a computer and OS' that isn't having immediate issues unrelated to Flight Simulator and FSInn.

I understand that you feel that you found a case. But I haven't because you stopped before I could go over everything. Had you continued, again, I would have went very closely over everything.

When I mention experimenting, I usually presume (of course I could be wrong in your case) that the user's computer isn't dormant during the interval between performing the steps I give from the Quick Install steps and FAQ linked in that message. Many people easily perform the quick install steps in about 4 minutes. Any of the other checks I can perform not much different from the same time. So, again, in the hours, days, and weeks in between performing a 10 minute check, I can't help but suspect the user might be testing or experimenting with something different, or misunderstanding how to perform the quick 5 or 10 minute check.

Again, I'm glad you found an alternate workaround... one of the solutions to system's performance mentioned in the FAQ. One of my reasons for always bringing up the Quick Install Steps and the Linked FAQ, in stead of just giving the steps as if they were new and unique, is because in pointing out the solution there, since the two pages are rather small, there's a good chance the users will see the other important tips that are included and avoid other problems.

Thank you kindly for the contribution! I use the information on the forum for maintaining the Quick Installation steps and linked FAQ. Your feedback and followups is what makes it work!

-- L. James

--
L. D. James
ljames@apollo3.com
www.apollo3.com/~ljames (http://www.apollo3.com/%7Eljames)