FSInn questions on inability to use VATSIM

[C96729]

I have copilot and FSInn loaded (latest editions per PRC). I use FSX and am a real world private pilot. When I load FSX, I click addons, which gives me the FSInn menus, and I can allegedly connect. However, after connecting to Vatsim, and attempting to chat, or speak using Vatsim (what buttons do I press to speak? Cntrl? caps lock?); I can't see anyone or hear anyone, and noone responds to any my voice or posted chats.

Do I need to log into a particular mutliuser session for Vatsim?; Do I need to log in to a particular IP Address, or do I just set up a single user session, and then use copilot/FSInn and connect to vatsim?

For all intents and purposes, it LOOKS like I am connected to Vatsim, everything appears normal, but noone's home. What am I doing wrong, and how can I find everyone else? I can also file flight plans in FSInn, so I know I'm logged in; what am I doing wrong?

Michael S
C96729
Real World Private Pilot

[L. D. James]

Ok, when you say latest edition, I'm sure you men version 1.3. The PRC is currently outdated and only references verion 1.2. I have submitted the updated information, but have been waiting for about a month for it to be added to the link. Version 1.2 has marginal support for FSX. Version 1.3 has full support for FSX.

You have to click on the button you configure for your PTT. That part is correct in the PRC (even though the update I sent has just a little more details).

Configuring Sound (VATSIM Voice and PTT/Push to talk):

While running Flight Simulator, bring up the FSFDT Control Panel. It's the icon in the tasktray that looks like a traffic light sign.

Click on Voice -> VATSIM (Choose your sound devices) -> Click on Volumes -> (Insure Sliders are to the right for more volume) Click on Key mappings -> (Choose your PTT for keyboard [and or joystick button])

With this I was fully up and running in minutes with voice configured. On the next session was a one click on the VATSIM button and I was connected and flying online.

As far as "particular multiluser session", this is all done by FSInn, no matter which mode (multiplayer, mission, free flight) you happen to be in. All is necessary, after the install and configuration, is to click on the VATSIM button. It should turn solid green with a weather ICON that shows you're connected.

Use servinfo (you can find it in our download section) to check and see where there's traffic. You will only see traffic if it's within range of the airport facility that you are connected.

-- L. James

--
L. D. James
ljames@apollo3.com
www.apollo3.com/~ljames

[C96729]

Thank you so much: I was finally able to get online; you did not mention that each ATC has its own frequencies, and not necessarily those of the real world towers. After looking at servinfo (this is critical to us newbies) it told me which towers were active, and what frequencies to contact tower at; without that, I didn't know which ones to fly around. Thanks so much for all your help!!!

Finally, why don't you guys at Vatsim simply stop all the extra downloads, i.e. FSInn, Servpro, addons, Copilot, squawk box, etc., and just run a vatsim session with a particular IP address? This way, everyone would know everything automatically through FSX? It handles all this automatically without any training. Indeed, FS-MP.Com does this automatically from their site, with thousands of users worldwide, with no problem whatsoever. Why does Vatsim make getting on-line in multi-player so complicated when FSX handles it automatically?

Michael S
C96729
Real world pilot

[L. D. James]

Hi, Michael. You're welcome. Thanks for acknowledging the success.

You're right. I didn't mentioned tuning the radio, but tried to be specific in answering your question and getting you easily connected, while at the same time giving you a very useful tool such as servinfo. To put everything in one message would be almost like trying to rewrite the manual and more. I believe it would add to confusion.

But now that you're connected, I'm sure that lots of useful tips might now be in order. I usually point the users to the PRC at www.vatsim.net/prc and ask them to take a look at the first flight page. Reviewing those pages, you'll find lots of useful tips. I'd be glad to answer any confusing entries (if I can). However, I'm sure, by you being a Real World pilot, lots of the things you're seeing makes a lot more sense to you than me.

You have good questions and comments about the network structure and software parts. I can understand why the complex network might appear to be built in some unnecessary component fashion. I'll explain some of the details, as well as the plus side that might make things clearer.

First, using one server and one IP address would put a serious burden on the one machine, and with the population of VATSIM and the limitations of both hardware and the Flight Simulator software, it would be impossible. When you fly on VATSIM as you can notice from servinfo, there is usually an average of 500 users online at the same time. The number often fluctuates between 300 and 800 during the course of the day. You'll never be flying alone, though you might be alone in your current vicinity. If you fly long enough, you'd be able to pass through areas with other pilots and controllers without changing anything.

That's not possible with the normal multiplayer environment of Flight Simulator. You would have to manually change sessions to change areas or to be with other people on their server. Their sessions have a limited amount that can join each session. When you're in their session, everybody interacts with everybody at the same time, whether the person is flying in china or the US. It would be very confusing to try to duplicate the as-real-as it gets theme of VATSIM. There's no reason why a person flying in San Francisco should be able to (or have to) tune his cockpits radio to monitor London. But if you did a long haul in VATSIM, when you got close enough in range, without changing IP's or anything, you'd soon be able to tune your cockpits radio to the London controllers, as well as, while flying the haul, you'd be tuning to all the other controllers who happen to be active as you pass through their airspace.

By the way, many Flight Simulators diehards actually enjoy doing just that. You'll notice from Servinfo that some do fly long hauls. They actually maintain presents at the console during their flights (a VATSIM connection regulation - the thirty minute rule). This is totally impossible (or should I say extremely impractical, because it would require a mainframe) with today hardware and software limitations to do this without the strategy of the software used for connection with VATSIM.

Again, there are component parts of connectivity. There's the Flight Simulator. With a server such as Gamespy, they change every year or so, making 10's of thousands of users' software obsolete. Not only can you not have the experience I just described, but all the users who still use Flight Simulator 2004 are locked out of Gamespy. It only works with the current FSX. Many people will not switch to FSX, because they have spend hundreds of dollars accumulating fleets of payware addon aircraft and scenery. They also have 10's of gigs of freeware and shareware addons that they have tweaked over the users, they they are not anxious to throw away. It will take them years to accumulate the same with FSX. So they without the facility of VATSIM, they would be locked out of the multiplayer environment. I believe on VATSIM users still use Flight Simulator version 2000. They also use versions of Flight Simulator that are made for Linux, Unix, the Mac OS. None of this versatility is available outside the type of network that VATSIM uses. Of course, you might be able to go out and by a new version of Flight Simulator the day it's released, and change every couple of years, but for many, just the startup cost of $65.00 might be a lot. Again after getting the startup flight simulator package... that's a fraction of the cost when you factor in the cost of the addons.

The Flight Simulator is a component. Now comes the pilot connection software... The development of the pilot software had to take in consideration which versions of Flight Simulator the user will be using. If the user will be using Linux, then it will have to be written for that OS. The FSInn Software is written to be downward compatible with most of the Microsoft Operating systems still in use today. I believe all the way to the totally unsupported by Microsoft itself, Windows 98. The pilot client software does all the work. The user does not have to type in an IP address, use an IP address or be aware of all the different IP addresses. Just run the pilot client software and enjoy the real world simulation of passing through the various sectors in the skies. The pilot client, being an independent development, doesn't have to wait for the whole Flight Simulator to be changed before an update of the client. It can be updated as the network develops. The independent development, for this reason among others, is a positive thing.

Then there's the Air Traffic Controllers connection software. Its development is independent also. It doesn't have to take into consideration of drawing all the different aircraft models. The developer has his own fine components to spend time with. I'm sure the developers of that software spend a lot of time with the scopes and how they are conveniently arranged on the computer screen for the controllers.

And then there's the server software. It doesn't have to depend on changing in a whim. It's designed to accept the connection of the Pilot Clients and the Controller clients. This way when Microsoft has a whim to change the way Flight Simulator functions, this big network of servers don't have to be down for months (maybe years) to figure out how to accommodate the new Flight Simulator. It remains available for the connection clients to do their thing. Again, there are connection clients for many versions of Flight Simulator as well as many versions of operating systems.

Again, giving the user an IP address to a server would be extremely complicated for the client to try to juggle. Look at the statistics on the VATSIM front page, www.vatsim.net . It shows how many servers are active. As I look this minute, it's 8. In a few hours it might be the same number, but it might not be the same servers. This is something the connection client program handles.

I better try to come to a closing; otherwise, I might make things seem more complicated than they are. I'm sure as you use it more, you'll find that it's not that complicated. And even if it is, the complexities are handled by the various connection clients rather than the user.

By the way, I just looked to see where you flew (http://data.vatsim.net/stats/ / http://data.vatsim.net/stats/private/list6.html?id=1020079&callsign=C96729&submit=2007-08-04+02%3A22%3A50 ). How was the flight? What type of traffic did you have with you? Were there ATC there?

I'm impressed with how quickly you've caught on. I'm sure it has a lot to do with your Real World experience. I do notice, however, you put remarks in the route section of the flight plan. You can actually put more than one remark in the remarks field.

I often use vroute ( www.vroute.net ) and www.simroutes.com for planning my routes. The downloadable program vroute is excellent. This is a big list with links to many individual areas: http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?t=2522 .

You can also get airport facility charts, SID's and STAR's from the various FIR/ARTCC links listed on the VATSIM main page.

At times some of the details can be rather challenging. But I really enjoy the academic participation and environment. There are lots of opportunities to fly multiplayer, but I see VATSIM in a class by itself.

-- L. James

--
L. D. James
ljames@apollo3.com
www.apollo3.com/~ljames

[C96729]

What an incredibly awesome response: Thank you so much!!! As to my flight, I did two so far. One from Hollywood, FL to Marathon Key in the Florida Keys, mirroring a real world flight planned this past Saturday (we missed it; the plane was in having a 100 hour inspection) and one in Israel.

I was shocked at how similar it is to real flying. One comment was that the controllers in Miami apparently are (were) not aware of a VFR corridor along the eastern shore, keeping us GA (General Aviation: read that as small aircraft)planes away from the Heavy 747's. They were only reading a "sectional map," whereas in Class Bravo airspaces, we use tactital (TAC instead of SEC) charts...it's much finer detail. In Miami, the Tac chart is a full 100% larger than the sectional for the same size map. Anytime anyone "really" flies in Class Bravo (B=BIG airports) airspace, we really NEED the closeups of the location of the way points on the maps.

You are so correct as to be able to fly to the differing airspaces: I was directed by Ground to Tower, Tower to Departure, and Flight following to my destination. It was a simply amazing experience, and I greatly thank you for all your help to get me up and running!

In particular, there is nowhere on the PRC which mentions you do not need to log in, and the connection will happen on single and multiplayer. This is a critical component for multiusers of gamespy, so you may wish to address this on PRC II. I also did not see anything about the server software, and that is sooooo critical to see where vatsim is controlling at that moment.

Finally, you might mention NOT to use the multiplayer section of FSX: If I log in multiplayer and then log in to VATSIM, I'll have two different controllers on two different frequencies. Thanks once again for ALL your (and your other volunteers in creating VATSIM) support!!!

Michael S
C96729
Real world private pilot

[L. D. James]

>In particular, there is nowhere on the PRC which mentions you
>do not need to log in, and the connection will happen on
>single and multiplayer. This is a critical component for
>multiusers of gamespy, so you may wish to address this on PRC
>II. I also did not see anything about the server software, and
>that is sooooo critical to see where vatsim is controlling at
>that moment.

The servinfo software is referenced in the PRC under software setup: http://usa-w.vatsim.net/prc/VPTPublic/104/104b/104b.htm .

Many people are overwhelmed at the amount of information found in the PRC. They don’t know where to start. For me, when writing the FSInn section, it was really a tough part in deciding what to put and what might be going in to much technical details making the reading seem to advance.

The main part is that the user can connect by clicking on the VATSIM button after installing and configuring FSInn. It really doesn’t matter which mode he happens to be in. All he has to do is click on the button and he’s in.

Many VATSIM’ers don’t necessarily know about Gamespy and other networks. It might be natural that they will know that VATSIM is a different network, and if they somehow connect to two, they might choose one of them to disconnect from, if that isn’t their desired intention. But to bring up all the other possible network configurations might be a little beyond the scope just for connecting to VATSIM.

A person really can connect to VATSIM from FSX whether he’s in the Missions mode, Multiplayer mode, or Free Flight mode. Of course if you’re using one of FSX’s builtin missions, you’ll have a conflict between the narrator of the mission and the sounds in VATSIM. So the user will most likely choose for himself to use a different mode if he didn’t want the conflict. However, to suggest that the user not use the missions’ mode might take some discussions also. Some VA’s create missions for their pilots which they expect to be flown in VATSIM. So the mode is ok.

I did tell include in the PRC that the AI sliders should be turned all the way to the left to avoid traffic confusion.

>Finally, you might mention NOT to use the multiplayer section
>of FSX: If I log in multiplayer and then log in to VATSIM,
>I'll have two different controllers on two different
>frequencies

Actually as I mentioned above, the user can use the multiplayer mode. This would be a necessary mode to use if he wants to share his plane with other pilots. There is a section that discusses this in detail in the PRC. Take a look at: http://mbev.net/wikka/ConnectingAsCopilot .

Again, I appreciate the feedback. I’ll take it all into consideration when doing documentation updates.

-- L. James

--
L. D. James
ljames@apollo3.com
www.apollo3.com/~ljames